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14 min read

Interviews with Britta Knobel, Jeffrey Heiligers & Helen Goodwin

Design Mementos Ep1: Self-promotion [present]


Three interviews with practicing creatives on their differing experiences, thoughts and tips for self-promoting in 2021.

With this scripted version of our podcast, you can see how we discuss design through human problems with links and photo references.



Interviews with architect Britta Knobel, re-engineer Jeffrey Heiligers & responsive artist Helen Goodwin


Britta Knobel, Architect - Studio Symbiosis


britta

I'm Britta. I studied in Germany then I was working in London for a couple of years and then worked at Zaha Hadid architects for almost five years and then Amit and I started our practice 11 years ago with Studio Symbiosis. Now we have offices in India and Germany. We are doing various projects from hotel master plans to interior offices, all the range in a way all scales. We are doing master planning, architecture and interior.


eszter

When I say self promotion, what is your initial reaction idea or thought of what that is and how it relates to you?

britta

I mean earlier when we started, before we had our own office it was more about online, online platforms like Dezeen or Arch Daily, Architectural news platforms. And now there is also social media, it becomes so strong. In a way we are more involved in let's say promoting by posting online, but we're also trying to be more active these days, we have been posting more.


It's not personal. I mean we are publishing our work so our work is a promotion for our office, not like the founding partners. It's the work we publish and interact about on social media with online platforms.

Our website of course also is promotion. And let's say clients, they would find us online as they speak to other clients of ours, so only by mouth in a way. It's not that we are as architects, it's not that we are advertising. Also no architects, I think are advertising.


Instagram account Studio Symbiosis


eszter

So different forms that could be called self promotion that you're active with are LinkedIn, for example, being part of judging panels, or talking at festivals like the festival of architecture?


britta

Yes, yes, totally. Events like architecture festivals, or just constantly these architecture events online or in real world now before COVID, now it's all online. Yeah, this yeah I guess you also call this promotion. But we don't have any business development personnel so in the office, it's only work we publish on our LinkedIn.


eszter

I noticed your name on LinkedIn, your name is all in capital letters so whenever I see you're tagged in something your name, it pops out! I wonder if this could also be some self promotion technique? I don't know.


britta

Glad to hear i'm popping up!



Image: Plexus, Lucknow, India by Studio Symbiosis


eszter

You've said that your studio creates architecture that is in symbiosis with nature surrounding climate and technologies, and you've worked with different things like circular economies in the cascading greens project. Diversity is another theme with your diversity Park, the eco Park in Delhi and sustainable or inclusive features, like with the Clean Air Tower which is a city lung providing clean air for everyone. Considering that these are very socially positive directed projects and concepts. I wonder if those themes also feed into who you work with and who you hire?

britta

The brain of the studio brings these things with it. But of course, yeah, I mean, if the interest of people applying in terms of sustainability is itself of course important to us as architects be to be in sync with what we are thinking and the passion and the architectural language. If it's just a profession for them or like just a way to earn money it's not what we want, they really have to be ambitious and motivated, that's very interesting. And then of course computer skills, graphical skills of the portfolio, the sign language and the quality of what a project shows.



Image: Aura, city lung by Studio Symbiosis

eszter

You've also talked about yourself and Amit coming from diverse backgrounds before working together. So when you moved into founding this studio together I winder did you also consider the factor of gender in that diversity and strength of your collaboration?


britta

I think gender doesn't really matter. But it's the collaboration and the discourse and discussion. Also, the whole office in terms of exchange and discussion matters. But, I mean in the office of course it's good that maybe sometimes I might be softer or sometimes it may be also changes, but also for the female architects in the office it's good I think. I feel more then let's say if I go to the construction site, everyone is more scared that it's going in the opposite, whether they would give me more value coming to a construction site I don't know. I mean I think in 2021 we should not speak so much about gender. It's a profession, and we are just trying to do good work.


If I'm a woman, a male, I mean, I'm just trying to develop good projects. I'm trying to design a sustainable future.

And yeah, I just wanted to add, I mean I'm coming from Berlin, Germany there there's not so much this gender feeling always or any discrimination. So yeah I don't come from this background where I feel that there's any discrimination.


eszter

We've been researching a little bit in general about the gender balance in design and architecture and it's noted in the UK for the last 20 years around 1/4 to 1/5 of professionals are females. And I wonder if that is the same experience that you see also reflected in your own career?


britta

I think in panel discussions and events and I feel also it's more men, maybe 70%. Even the studio applications we get it's also male dominated. I think maybe 80% men, maybe 20% women.


eszter

And do you see also, because you also have taught in architectural degrees in Brighton and in New Delhi, your experience there. How was the balance?

britta

Yes, I think in UK maybe it was 50/50 There was almost as many women and girls and men, let's say India is a bit more extreme. For example, Amit had a batch of 20 girls only four to five are practicing now. So I think in India, it's culturally also a different topic. They just get married and don't work anymore. This may be an exception in terms of India. But yeah, India is more men oriented. A lot of women in India are teaching, so not so many are really practicing themselves.



Jeffrey Heiligers, re-engineer - Studio Jeffrey Heiligers


Instagram: https://ww w.instagram.com/jeffrey_heiligers/



jeffrey

I'm Jeffrey, I have my own studio called Studio Jeffrey Heiligers, since last year I also gave myself a title, calling myself a re-engineer, and basically that comes from me being a mechanical engineer, that's my background and then went into design. With my practice I'm trying to motivate positive change towards sustainable futures.


My approach to design is slightly different than what most people do I normally start at the end and then work my way back, because I think it's important that we take into consideration what happens with the product when we don't want it anymore. And then rebuild it into future proof products that will last a long time. When it is at the end of life it can easily be recycled or reused. We're in a time now where a lot of stuff is made, not in a good way. I think a lot of companies also struggle with all the information that is out there about sustainability. The businesses that I collaborate with can pioneer and be actually sustainable instead of greenwashing their brands because that's something I really disagree with.

Image: The new standard 2030, photo by Tim Meijer


eszter

Recently you've been very active, to try and promote your business and promote your work and you mentioned in a post that this year, your business was hit hard because of the pandemic. Could you tell us a little bit about the promotion techniques that you've been active with most recently?


jeffrey

I participated in Driving Dutch Design last year which is a master class program from the Dutch Design Foundation and the ABN AMRO bank. It's with 22 designers, you follow these master classes and one of the things of course is also about self-promotion because I really struggled with it I find it super hard to talk about what I do. In that master class program a lot of times, people told me, the most dominant factor in your business is your process. I always show just the end result, and in all honesty, that's is just such a small part of what I do. I think now, like it really opened up my eyes last year by getting all that feedback from everyone that I was like, if I don't give people an insight in how I work, how my practice is run, then clients will never understand what I can do for them. So, yeah, it is very important that I made that change and I think definitely it's better for people like for everyone to understand what I do so in a way it's better self promotion than I was doing before.


I struggled really really bad to promote myself but then I bought a little tripods for my phone and I started doing like videos and making a lot more, lots more photos of like small bits out of the process to basically actively engaged with the people that follow me so that they get a better understanding of what I do.


I got some really positive feedback also about being quite personal in my self-promoting. Like sharing that the virus really hit my business.

That was again a boost on my side to engage more with people on Instagram and really be more aware of that it's okay to self promote and show what you're doing and also show the downside of stuff that this happens as well like it's not always, you know I always say Instagram versus reality, you always see the beautiful stuff and then all the bad stuff is hidden from you,



Image: screenshot of Studio Jeffrey Heiligers instagram



eszter

So you did this post which was 'five reasons why I do what I do' reading it felt very personal and very human, very open. This is how you feel about things, and this is how you feel about what you're working on and what you want to work on. It's quite a vulnerable thing to do as well. Did you get any kind of reactions from that post?


jeffrey

Yeah, I had quite actually quite positive feedback on a blog post that I did about the five reasons why I do what I do because I think it was one of the first times that I actually came out with, like, what are the frustrations, or the things that drive my studio to do the things I do. Also it's nice to just be open about it, and maybe I wasn't open enough before what I said like I need to share more things for people to really understand what I do because it's really complex. It addresses, lots of different themes, I never stick to just one thing it's always different. Every project is different. So I think this helps because this is like these five reasons are the core of who Jeffrey is. What I do, why I do what I do.


eszter

You've been doing posts on Instagram and LinkedIn and other social medias. But, during Dutch Design Week 2020, you had these zoom calls these live streams, with a lot of people. This is another great way to promote yourself and your practice. How was that form of promotion for yourself?


jeffrey

That was really fun and scary at the same time because it was live, and I'm quite a shy person, to be honest I dont really like to be on camera, or, like, even this I find quite nerve wracking. But it was nice because as soon as I picked up the phone and started calling all these people that I would like to have on the digital table to talk with me about a certain subject they all were super excited about it. Also it was quite a big promotion for them as well because they could also go to Dutch Design Week with me and share my platform basically, like the bit that I had, they could be part of it. And yeah, lots of stuff also came out of that because what I think was really nice and it was also the goal of these live streams, is that with my work because they're always complex themes and sometimes I don't know something about plastic or whatever so I need someone to help me so I'm going to find someone that is an expert in that field, and I add them to my team.


Image: Screenshot from Studio Jeffrey Heiligers DDW Livestream



The theme for me for the Dutch Design Week was the 'New Standard for the year 2030' which was like a news article where basically the government stepped in and said we can't purchase things anymore we need to adopt them. And I thought it's a really interesting topic and there's all these people that I've met, that know so much about sustainability or circularity, or textiles or whatever, but they never meet up, like, they all have all this knowledge, they never meet up!


Why don't we have this open conversation using my work as a starting point and then just debate about it for an hour and see what happens.

There was one rule and it was that we cannot be negative to each other, we are only allowed to bring positivity to the table. And even they were surprised like within one hour we've learned so much. Also I think that was a way for me to show potential new clients, that this is how I work. I don't just come up with stuff I always, you know, get my knowledge from somewhere or share experiences or bring people together.


Yesterday I had a phone call with a friend we were talking about our text on our websites. So she asked me to look at hers and the other way around. So we helped each other a little bit. it's so much easier to talk about talking about someone else, it's really easy for me to tell everyone what she's doing, because we've been in the same process for a year I've heard her story over and over and over again so I know who she is and what she does, and also the other way around. But then to do that for yourself. That's a completely different story.


eszter

Yeah, it's a really great tip for people to have this kind of buddy system!


jeffrey

Well, you should never be shy and ask. I think that we got to a point where we're all trying to show the best side of ourselves and forget about being an actual human being.

I think that human beings only connect to human beings and not a perfect picture on the internet, because that's not real.

Helen Goodwin




helen

My practice is site responsive. I work mainly in outdoor locations with material of place so for example, chalk, soil, charcoal. Most of my work disappears, is either cut down or swept away. So I work with ideas around inpermanence. I do also work in terms of spaces, in response to those spaces.


eszter

The theme of this episode is self-promotion, when you hear the word self promotion, what is your initial idea of what that is, in relation to your work?


helen

It is a really difficult thing to put your finger on. It's, it's like saying, Look at me, look at me! As an artist that's actually quite difficult if you have to do it for yourself. When you say those words, I personally, kind of feel uncomfortable with that.


If I think of self-promotion in terms of sharing my practice with people, that feels very very different. I feel very comfortable with that.

Maybe a way of looking at putting ourselves out there as artists as creators, designers, is to think more what you're offering somebody in relation to what we do. So rather than thinking, well, I won't tell them about what I really do, we all want to know about each other.


We all want to craft ourselves, in many different forms. I think if its your practice and it's important to you, actually, it may be really helpful for them. I've now been able to embrace that thing, I can share. It's something that keeps me alive actually, giving somebody something.

Image: screenshot of Helen Goodwin instagram



eszter

The forms of self-promotion that you're currently pursuing during the pandemic are more digital so like Instagram, and Facebook?

helen

Yes, I know now there are many more ways to promote self as well as on social platforms. It took me quite a while to decide to go on Instagram. So many people said you should do that, it's just wonderful to see others work as well and also to get dialogue going around pieces so it's like feedback place.


eszter

Do you recognize how self-promoting has changed for you in how you talk about your work now, using these digital platforms compared to how it was when you first started creating?


helen

Yeah, very much so. The digital platform has enabled enabled me as an artist. If I compare to how it was for example in my degree, so then, you'd have a poster. There's no email, there's no internet, you have a poster to be put around town. And maybe newspaper, radio. In school youre just happy to have an audience and you didn't think beyond that.


I think what we've done is through social media, there is this kind of abundance, out there and I have at times decided to just pull back and very quickly thought I can't afford to do that. Also I really like to see what others are doing. So for me it's a double edged sword. I realized in one way I have to embrace it has changed.


When I lived overseas, initially in Hungary, in the early 90s i'd gone on to the local market to buy apples, cherries, and they hear in my accent from my not very good Hungarian, so they asked who I was and what what I did. And I'd say I'm an artist. And that was quite hard for me to say coming from Britain because to say you're an artist, maybe it connects with me being a woman, possibly, it was almost you are a hobbyist. It wasn't something serious because you couldn't make a living. Then in Hungary I was seen as equal status to a teacher, they wanted to see my work, this was a market stall, and I was just like what this is fantastic! And that enabled me and allowed me to kind of stand back and think about and value what I do. So it took me another culture, to value the fact I practiced, art, and I came back and I was very lucky at the art school I chose to go to, we used to have lectures around feminist art. So I was from the time I started studying very aware of female artists, there was a magazine called Spare Room, which had feminist articles by women.


It was a real enabler to see those sucessful female artists.

Image: Trace of chair, ArtLicks London by Helen Goodwin



eszter

If we were to define in a way your self-promotion practice, it would be a human promotion and a very personal promotion?

helen

I'm very, very lucky after so many people have been so generous in promoting my art. If I didnt have that it might be different.


Something very minor, but something really exciting in Brighton at the moment is born out of COVID, this organization called Brighton artists network started by a woman, she works voluntarily and she's managed to get a group of volunteers to help organize this. 36 artists are involved in 22 events in Brighton outdoors, March, April, and i've just been selected to have a platform. A big billboard promotion and advertisement. Quite scary and exciting. So, yeah, in terms of promotion, I think what they are doing is fantastic. Well, I really admire what they do but equally I do tend to shy away before the digital world. I think what happened is, before I've worked on a much more local level, there is a sense of a real supportive environment.


Image: Trace of chair by Helen Goodwin for

the Brighton Artists network UrBan project


Computers have created fantastic and exciting but at times it feels a slight overload. So when I'm looking through Instagram, I'm just saying, oh my god there's so many things out there, and it's only going to increase, and part of my work is about disappearing because the world is so full anyway. So we're filling even more. And Im contributing that!





eszter

Our series theme is gender discrimination. We focus on women and design because of our own experiences and connection to this topic, but it's also something that affects non binary and trans creators, as well as - men.


For Jeffrey, he mentioned that recently in a job interview, he was told that they didn't want him because he was a man, what a feedback to get from someone that your identity, which you cannot change is a reason NOT to be given the opportunity to work. And while like Britta said 2021 should be a time where we've gotten over this gender focus and give work based on merit. If we don't work to close this vast gender gap that persists in leadership/prominent positions in the creative industry. People like Helen, who are bolstered by strong female role models (in turn becoming one) will not feel like they have a place or opportunity for success.


Each of the people I spoke to had different approaches to self promotion. For Helen, it was about meaningful interactions around her works, for Britta it's less personal more about showing their studio's work and mission, and for Jeffrey, it's about sharing and showing his values, there's not really a one size fits all!




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